If someone is described as a Nice Guy they aren’t really nice. Imagine a guy who has a crush on a girl but just tries to be her friend while resenting her for dating other guys. That guy isn’t nice. He’s misrepresenting his feelings while trying to get close to her. Does he try to be there for her when things are bad? Guess what, genius? That’s what actual friends would do for her without the expectation that they get something out of it.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I come across as being harsh on Nice Guys it’s for two reasons. First, I have had a few female friends treated absolutely horribly by self-proclaimed Nice Guys. Secondly, I recognized similar tendencies in myself when I was in high school, and I was dead fucking wrong.

A few other specific points I wanted to make:
“Also, Nice Guys are not master manipulators if they were then they probably would already have the lives they desire.”
No one ever said Nice Guys were master manipulators. I would describe them as manipulative, and there’s a significant difference.

“However, I am not sure that having sex with drunken girl is rape.”
People have already covered this, but yes, it is. One person cannot give consent. If both people are drunk, then it’s a drunken one-night-stand. It’s a topic that comes up at most college orientations. That being said, it’s a tricky subject, and it’s not frequently prosecuted, but it’s still rape.

“People do take advantage of kindness, treat them like crap, and get nothing of out treating people they way they should be treated.”
This is one of the cornerstones of Nice Guys, the martyr complex. Listen, if people are constantly taking advantage of you and it pisses you off, you’re not nice, you’re just spineless. The other thing that comes into play here is the true difference between nice and Nice. It’s a matter of ends and means. If you’re nice because you honestly believe that’s the way people should be treated without being concerned with the outcome, that’s nice. If you’re nice because you believe that you should get something out of it, that’s Nice. Nice Guys are typically concerned with what Nice can get them.

There’s a difference between staying out of her business and actively encouraging her to be in a harmful relationship. If she had a drug addiction, she’d want to hear that it wasn’t a big deal, but that wouldn’t mean he wasn’t an asshole for telling her it was harmless just so she’d like him more.

Pssst – alcohol is a drug. Also psssst- sleeping with someone that drunk is, in many places, statutory rape. And even if you’re going to pretend that it’s not that bad to sleep with someone too drunk to stand, if you’re at least sane enough to agree it’s definitely a bad thing, then the point remains – the comic is absurd because it’s portraying him as an angel simply for NOT doing a very bad thing. Again, even if you’re not going to agree with the damn dirty feminists that sleeping with someone too drunk to stand is rape, then consider if he had made a comic that portrays him as an angel for not shoplifting something he wanted in a store. For not slapping someone who was boring him. It’s ridiculous how Nice Guys give themselves so much praise for NOT doing indisputably bad things.

I can’t believe I justified that with a reply, but this comment popped up in my email box and caught my attention, so eh.

Yeah, but a lot of people act dumb and/or like big jerks. Did we learn nothing from Daria Morgendorffer, people?!

“Rape is forcing yourself on a person against their will or without their consent. However, I am not sure that having sex with drunken girl is rape… If she was mentally or physically impaired then it would be a completely different story.”

She’s unable to stand up or think properly, so she’s clearly been mentally and physically impaired by alcohol – that makes her unable to consent.

“Furthermore, the cartoon is about him NOT taking advantage of her”

But he wants to. That’s what the joke is: he wants to take advantage.

“What we’re looking at here is the first ever comic, and Mike
and Tim start as they mean to go on. We’re told that Jeff is a nice guy who respects women as human beings rather than sexual objects, and yet the second this woman mentions she already has a boyfriend, he stops listening entirely and her dialogue is replaced with “BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH”. In other words, if she’s not sexually available, then there’s no no point in listening to her talk, and the punchline only works (well, works in theory) if we share Jeff’s viewpoint. If a woman had made a virtually identical comic suggesting that men only listen to women if they think they’ll get laid then the anti-misandry SWAT team would be all over it, yet this was made by men in the hopes that other men would actually empathise with it. The second comic runs along similar lines; Jeff is annoyed that a group of women have welcomed him into their circle of friends but don’t view him sexually, as if this renders all interpersonal interaction with them pointless. Well, of course it does; this is exactly how Nice Guys operate, treating all encounters with women as a form of speed dating and then getting annoyed when it’s revealed that the woman getting coffee was, in fact, actually getting coffee rather than cruisin’ for an emotionally co-dependent shitstorm.”

Okay, when any guy ( not just “Nice Guys”) hear the word “boyfriend” then they probably lose interest quickly. There is nothing wrong with meeting someone randomly that you find interesting and believing that there maybe a potential love interest. It happens to a lot of people so criticizing the Nice Guy for it is not only hypocritical but pointless. Also, have you consider that Jeff is more interested in a romantic partner then a sexual partner. To say that Nice Guy just wanted her for sex just for being frustrated at a woman’s unavailability is just unfair. Furthermore, I believe that most nice guys are okay being friends with women as long as they don’t feel castrated and as long as they are treated as equals.

“I think we all have a pretty good idea of how you’d treat her if you had the chance, Jeff, and I’d also like to add that if you think Becki is dating losers and you’re not telling her, you’re not so much a source of emotional support as a giant whining albatross around her neck. This is also pretty common Nice Guy behaviour; deliberately wanting a girl to make bad choices over and over so she loses self-confidence and becomes easier to manipulate, though here, as in real life, it’s presented as “I didn’t want to say anything in case I upset you”. Hilariously, Becki’s bio lists “Men who treat her with respect” under “turn offs”.

If a girl makes bad choices she makes bad choices. It is not the “Nice Guy” that makes the woman make poor decisions. She like everyone else is in charge of her own actions. If Jeff would have told Beck that she is dating a loser then you probably would be criticizing him for manipulating her to break up with her boyfriend. He basically trying to give her emotional support by telling her what she wants to hear. Friends do spare the truth sometimes for the sake of their friend’s feelings. Also, Nice Guys are not master manipulates if they were then they probably would already have the lives they desire. The more you demonize the Nice Guy the more he sounds like a bogeyman that you eventually realizes doesn’t really exist.

“Yeah, Mike and Tim, it’s fucking hilarious that your goddamn Mary Sue perfect hero wants a “counterpoint” to not committing date rape. ‘Cause it’s just such a crushing burden going around all day not raping women that even Jeff, the nicest guy in the universe, so nice he has two angels, needs a break now and then. In his own words, he deserves a counterpoint, as if there’s some kind of rate of exchange whereby you’re allowed to treat someone else’s body as your property once for every five times you let someone cut in line in front of you. In case the fucked-upness hasn’t quite hit home yet, I’ll reiterate: This is a comic about how Jeff is so nice that, faced with a drunk woman, he considers raping her, and is annoyed that he can’t properly justify it. In a comic series where Jeff is meant to represent a man who respects women. And it’s a comedy.

Does that scene really condon rape? Rape is forcing yourself on a person against their will or without their consent. However, I am not sure that having sex with drunken girl is rape. If “Jeff” would have drugged her or waited for her pass out from the alcohol to have sex then it would have been date rape scenario. Sadly drunken one night stands are not uncommon and it’s true that he would have been taking advantage of her impaired judgement (due to alcohol) but that still may not count as rape. If she was mentally or physically impaired then it would be a completely different story. Furthermore, the cartoon is about him NOT taking advantage of her when a least decent kind of guy would have slept her.

From my experience I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. I am just her to state my thoughts that people need to ask themselves a very important question regarding the Nice Guy and the question is why do you care? Why do you care about what the nice guy thinks or believes? Why go on the Internet and write long drown out rants about how much you hate Nice Guys? Why when there is really no reason? All the anti- Nice Guy articles that have read have the common elements their illogical, inconstant, and avoids any real dialogue. This Internet hatred towards the Nice Guy proves nothing the only thing that it proves that you care. If you really want to prove something to the Nice Guys of the world you should project a aura of indifference not bitterness and resentment towards them. The reason that a lot of people may care is out of the fear that they may be right.

Psychology Wiki almost accurately details the frustration of the nice guy and even thou I don’t agree with diagnosis it does give people insight on why the nice guy is constantly frustrated. People do take advantage of kindness, treat them like crap, and get nothing of out treating people they way they should be treated. The fact the nice guy get treated with very little regard explains why some develop low self-esteem. The nice guy is often criticized for that, but what most people don’t ask is where the low self esteem comes from in the first place. Instead people would rather assume that nice guys was simply born with low self-esteem. Nice guys don’t want rewards; all they want is have the same joys and pleasures as everyone else, which is human nature. Most people feel they deserve to be as happy as anyone else and nice guys are no different. Nice guys are simply human beings nothing more and nothing less. Please for all our sakes it is time to grow up.

In response to Tallycola

“I know all the millions of sitcoms you’re talking about, none of which are particular gems of the small screen. The current forerunner is “Big Bang Theory” (why do people like that show?) but it can’t keep compete with your “the Office” or “30 Rock”. Because it sucks, the Nice Guy premise is annoying and lame. ”

The Office has character who is a Nice Guy his name is Jim Halpert. Think about it.

God I hope so.

Of course, I live only a couple hours away from the creators’ home base in Sacramento, so I can only assume that they were passing through here one day and stopped by to cajole the owner into buying a copy. Because I find it hard to believe that the demand for this comic is so hight that stores would stock it of their own accord.

For the curious: The plot involves Jeff getting shat on by everyone all day. Then the girl tells him that he’s like a brother. WHAT A TWIST!

It’s the effing Autons.