Crimitism

Yeah, that was probably the least productive academic year of my life.

But the stupidest part…

Posted by Richie on October 18, 2009

Is probably their own response. It relies on my favourite ever internet debating style, in which you reproduce your opponents’ arguments verbatim, say something along the lines of “Hahaha, that is so stupid I do not even know where to BEGIN!” and then act as if the entire thing is beneath you without ever actually providing a cogent rebuttal. It’s no surprise that it’s most popular among the sort of people who’d write and read a blog like The Spearhead, because it’s the kind of response they get from everyone else, and if it works for them, then it’ll work for us too, right? Right? It’s best to think of them as the debating equivalent of ten year olds who believe that watching Dragonball has taught them ninjitsu.

But glibness only works if you’re obviously, unambiguously better than your opponents,  which would be hard to accept from The Spearhead even if they hadn’t provided conclusive evidence to the contrary by quoting the people they were arguing with. What makes it doubly tragic is that they open by quoting someone who effectively brings nothing but ad hominems to the table, yet The Spearhead’s criticism of her serves only to remind us that they’re even more vacuous than their trolls; Versy, amidst the abuse, at least points out that women write Star Trek, whereas the best The Spearhead can do is accuse her of using “shaming language”. Boy, oh boy, do the men’s movement have a defiantly heterosexual hard-on for the phrase “shaming language” of late, and its not hard to see the appeal. Just written a screed about how decadent Ameriskanks have forced you to move to Siberia, where men are men and women are orifices who’ve learned to cook? When people call you a misogynist, it’s not because you’re actually a misogynist, it’s because they’re trying to shame you. And when people say your incoherent rant about women not putting out enough sounds like you’re trying to justify date rape, that’s shaming too! And that time you were staring down that woman’s dress and she rolled her eyes? Yup, shaming. Christ, people are so immature.

And yet it gets worse.  It’s worth keeping in mind that this is a post The Spearhead put together themselves, and thus had control over what to include and what to leave out. Since we know from prior experience that they’re not big on, say, facts, we might expect that if they came across a really, really good argument against them, they might not want to draw attention to it, and that if they did, they’d have a really, really good response. I mean, they’re not exactly on the spot here; there was a week in between the original article being published and the response-to-the-responses appearing, which is more than adequate to come up with something more substantial then “shaming tactics”. So when they reproduce a comment which includes…

First fully realized science fiction novel: Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein.

…we’d expect, y’know, some kind of argument against the assertion that Frakenstein was the first science fiction novel. Its not as if there aren’t any. A lot of them are quite well-argued, and also have the advantage of coming from a position of genuine literary criticism rather than paranoid misogyny, which is always a plus if you’re trying to look reasonable. But the best our heroes can do – in a article they have complete control over the content of, remember – is:

This is the most typical troll response. Throw out one or two facts out of context and then use sexual shaming language.

Out of context…? I mean, I’m well aware we’re not dealing with the cream of human intellect here, but surely, surely they must be aware that, in an article about women in science fiction, Frankenstein is the most contextually contextual book that ever contexted? Do they actually not realise that they — wait, they just tried to take someone down by telling them they’ve “got a lot of time on their hands”, which is my second favourite internet debating style. To be fair, the comment in question actually is a massive waste of time, but it still took less time to write than anything in The Spearhead, so getting all judgmental about it is, perhaps, unwise.

Someone does eventually tackle the Frankenstein argument in the article comments, although he gets the subtitle wrong and can’t be bothered looking up the publication date, two pieces of information that I’ll hazard a guess are probably available on the internet. His argument is that, despite what “feminized academia” want us to believe, we should instead look to Gulliver’s Travels – which “featured advance science” – and Utopia – which also features “science” – as the first examples of science fiction novels, both written by manly manly man men. Well, yes, if your definition of science fiction is “a story that happens to include science at some point”, but that’s not what Aldiss was getting at when he named Frankenstein as the first science fiction novel: Frankenstein is a watershed moment because it’s a story about how life itself, previously something primal, cosmic and wholly spritiual, something only God was supposed to be able to control, is suddenly put in the hands of one man, not because he has superpowers or a pact with Satan, but because he understands biology. The “science” in Gulliver and Utopia, that well-known firm of solicitors, doesn’t have anywhere near the same impact on the narratives, and is just there to provide a pseudo-rational explanation for flying islands and immortality devices. Still, the SF TV shows they were whining about work in pretty much the same way, so it’s understandable that someone would take this approach to defining “proper” science fiction.

So there you go. This is but a sampling of the trollery we have attracted, and seems to indicate that our primary foes in the gender wars are insecure, female nerds who know they live in a house of cards.

Since I opened this post by complaining about believing a response is beneath you, I can’t reasonably just say “uh huh” and leave you all to bask in the radiating fuckwittery. So, on the offchance anyone from Spearhead sees this and they haven’t given up reading by this point: If you’re scared shitless of women contaminating SF with their doilies and menstrual blood, then the insecure party might actually be you.

“First fully realized science fiction novel: Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein.

Your premise is as invalid as it is insulting, ignorant, and all-around laughable. Enjoy having to pay for sex for most of your life.”

“Frankenstein” or “The Hidden Prometheus” was written around 1800. “Gulliver’s Travels” which featured advanced science was written 50 years before that. In 1516, Thomas Moore wrote “Utopia” About a fictional place with science and technology so advanced that death and suffering were nearly eliminated. In the 1600’s Cyrano DeBergerac wrote “The Other World: The comical history of the States and Empires of the Moon” which involved space travel.

Mary Shelley’s work was certainly groundbreaking and deserves merit, but she was hardly the first science fiction writer, despite what the feminized academia might have us believe.

44 Responses to “But the stupidest part…”

  1. Welmer said

    Since we know from prior experience that they’re not big on, say, facts, we might expect that if they came across a really, really good argument against them, they might not want to draw attention to it, and that if they did, they’d have a really, really good response.

    Thank you for reading The Spearhead. I noticed your trackback and thought I’d respond to your post.

    I’d like to point out that no coherent, reasonable criticism of our posts has been deleted, so the above quote is misleading. Posts are only deleted for violating the commenting guidelines. Feel free to return and speak your mind.

    Have a nice day!

  2. Richie said

    I didn’t say you’d deleted anything, I said that if you’re going to reproduce responses for the purpose of mocking them, then reproducing the ones that shoot your entire argument down in flames without offering a counter-argument is a pretty bloody stupid thing to do. Much like criticising someone for being “excited by genital imagery” when your website’s logo is a huge spear, in fact.

    I apologise for any shame I may have caused you, you fucking moron.

  3. bellatrys said

    Um, if they’re going to claim “Utopia” and “Gulliver,” then I’m going to counter-claim for my guy Lucian of Samosata and his “True History” which is classic Pulp Adventurer SF, with voyages to the Moon as well as romantic encounters with Plant Women (that don’t go so well, ahem) and multi-limbed pieced-together Creatures to fight in Epic Encounters that would make ERB cry in his beer…

    Of course, he also has loads of subversion, genre-mockery, guys talking about their feelings for each other (and other guys’ feelings for each other), and snarky female characters taking the piss out of the gods and heroes of mythology all over the place in his writings, so I’m not sure that would make them too happy, even if he is a Classical author (plus he was Syrian – and snarky about Graeco-Roman chauvinism – so he probably wouldn’t be white enough, either…)

  4. Richie said

    May as well throw the Rig Veda in there as well, since it’s got enough spaceship-things in it to fuel endless drivelly ancient astronaut theories. And does Talos count, since he was made of metal? It’s almost as if they have no clue what they’re talking about.

  5. You are a brave person to take on such stupidity. :)

  6. Richie said

    That whole blog is like a really, really rich chocolate cake that’s both delicious and impossible to finish in one sitting.

  7. wiggles said

    Utopia is a novel? I thought it was a pamphlet.
    By the same logic, I guess it could be argued that Plato’s Symposium is science fiction, because it’s full of wacky theories about human anatomy.

  8. Richie said

    I’m sure that as far as these guys are concerned, a pamphlet may as well be a novel.

  9. lauredhel said

    “say something along the lines of “Hahaha, that is so stupid I do not even know where to BEGIN!” and then act as if the entire thing is beneath you without ever actually providing a cogent rebuttal. “

    Hah! That’s totally my blogging style. Well, sometimes.

    Maybe we could patent some protein-modification technique enabling us to crochet doilies entirely from menstrual-blood yarn. That could be fun.

  10. Richie said

    Now that men have been scared away from studying science forever, it’s only a matter of time.

  11. tallycola said

    Science fiction is going to be better off without these particular men, anyway. So, bonus all around.

  12. Welmer said

    Much like criticising someone for being “excited by genital imagery” when your website’s logo is a huge spear, in fact.

    Well, I suppose we could change it to a blooming rose, but I’m not sure that would convey the appropriate message.

    I apologise for any shame I may have caused you, you fucking moron.

    And good morning to you, sir.

    Feel free to check out our newest post on SF/Fantasy.

  13. Richie said

    Once again, acting as if you’re above it all doesn’t work if you’ve repeatedly proven that you lack both self-awareness and basic reasoning abilities. You seem to be under the delusion that if you act smug enough, it’ll convince people that you must be right. It isn’t working. Everyone thinks you’re a joke.

    Trying to get traffic off me is self-defeating. Nobody who regularly reads this blog is ever going to agree with your facile, paranoid, insecure ranting, so all you’re doing is ensuring that even more people are sighing at you.

    I expect this kind of attitude from a teenager, but on the basis of your personal website, you appear to be in your forties. If you weren’t a hostile ball of directionless, irrational hatred, people might even find you tragic.

    Stop trying to be clever. You’re not.

  14. bg said

    Spearhead also had this: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/15/love-and-race-in-modern-america/

    Now, while there are some issues with this article about interracial relationships, the real fun begins in the comments. Anyone want to wager how long it takes before someone mentions miscegination or eugenics?

    Who had 12 comments in for misegination and 19 comments in for eugenics? You win a prize!

  15. Richie said

    HEY GUYS HAVE YOU WORKED OUT WHY PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF WITH YOU YET???

  16. Lady Tsunadae said

    FTW?
    I thought he was trying to be stupid on purpose. But he’s serious?
    And he’s still coming back here?

    Seriously, how can someone go from accusing another of using “sexual shaming language (what is this, middle school?)”, then straight after it call someone else a mangina. STRAIGHT AFTER HE JUST DENOUNCED THE FORMER OF BEING STUPID AND IMMATURE FOR DOING THE EXACT SAME THING! Except calling someone a mangina actually is a form of sexual shaming.

    Illogical, illogical, illogical…

  17. Richie said

    And if you disagree with them, you’re brainwashed. Taste that entitlement!

  18. JFA said

    What’s the matter Richie?

    Can’t you take any criticism of your religion?

  19. Richie said

    I’m only approving your comments because they’re a perfect demonstration of how desperate and vacuous you are.

    We are not equals engaged in a thrilling game of insult ping pong. You are repeatedly and unambiguously making absolute fools out of yourselves in front of the people you’re trying to intimidate.

  20. JFA said

    Richie,

    I am not trying to intimidate anybody. I can handle criticism. I come from a Popperian perspective. If something has any basis to it, criticism will only make it stronger.

    If you could handle criticism you would not use your ability to determine which comments are posted as a way to filter out the criticism to which you have no response.

  21. Richie said

    “Shaming language”, “Mangina”, “Brainwashed”, “Femtard”, “Politically Correct” and the like are not criticisms, they’re insults, and not even especially clever ones at that. I wrote an entire post about homosexuality in Doctor Who, which directly addresses your arguments, explains why I think they’re wrong and provides evidence to back my claims up. Nobody from The Spearhead’s even attempted to provide a counter-argument to what I’ve said, and if I were a betting man I’d wager that it’s because there isn’t one.

    If you gave a shit about accepting and learning from criticism – actual criticism – then you wouldn’t be writing a blog about how oppressed men are. It’s that fucking simple. If you weigh up the evidence that men are oppressed by women and the evidence that women are oppressed by men, then the only way you could possibly believe in the former is by twisting the facts totally beyond recognition. Women make less money, wield less influence, have lower self-esteem and are infinitely more likely to be beaten, raped and killed by their intimate partners. We can easily verify this because it’s what actually happens.

    Arguing the opposite involves coming up with ridiculous theories based either on intentionally misinterpreting statistics (the “women are equally likely to commit domestic violence” arguments are based on studies that aren’t designed to measure domestic violence, and were chosen specifically because they’d produce a skewed outcome), double standards (there’s a “boy crisis” because boys are getting lower grades, ergo the problem must be girls, yet if girls are doing badly then it’s proof of their innate inferiority) or simply pulling shit out of thin air (any of the many, many paragraphs beginning with “evidence suggests” that never actually mention where said evidence can be located). Don’t even think about suggesting you care about the facts. You don’t. You want a justification for your misogyny. That’s all.

    I’ve approved every single pro-Spearhead comment left in this thread so far. This is going to be the last one, not because I can’t handle the criticism, but because you’re all a complete waste of time. I’m sure you’ll consider this some kind of victory, because it’ll give you another excuse to whine about being oppressed and censored by the PC Brigade. The last thing people with your sickening lack of perspective should be writing about is oppression.

    You were never really welcome here, but I’m officially kicking you out as of now.

    I’m very sorry for everybody who knows you, especially the women.

  22. Oriniwen said

    Can I get an “oh snap!”? You were told, Richie. *Told*. I anxiously await the “yo mamma” rebuttal.

    JFA: pretentious much?

  23. Richie said

    Yeah, I bet JFA stands for… Jar Full of… Apricots. BURRRRRRRRRRRRN.

  24. Phira said

    This blog is going on my Google Reader. Although it’s physically painful to know that these Spearhead people, and similar folks exist, it’s pretty fun to read the critique. Keep up the awesome work.

  25. bellatrys said

    I love the “we’re SOOOOOO unaffected by your criticism of us….that we just have to keep coming back and making SURE that you’re aware that we TOTALLY DON”T CARE what you think of us! Neener Neener! Hello? Is this thing on? OH AND THE LURKERS SUPPORT US IN EMAIL, TOO!”

    They tried that over at the Slog, too. Still just as funny, still just as absolutely 4th-grade playground…

  26. This is excellent, Richard. Tweeting it around, if you do not mind. :)
    It needs to be shared with the universe at large.

  27. Richie said

    Oh that’s quite alright! Thank you.

    And yeah, now that I’ve blocked them, they’re emailing me.

  28. bellatrys said

    Because nothing says “We so don’t care” like stalking-via-email…

  29. Richie said

    It’s also not fair that I’ve blocked them because now they can’t “defend” themselves against my “public attacks”. Y’know, despite having their own website. Really, really not used to being told “No”, aren’t they?

  30. Oriniwen said

    I’m looking forward to the “Best of the Worst of the Mailbag” post.

    My life could use a little more asshat smackdown, to be honest.

  31. bellatrys said

    Well, it’s a chronic problem for solipsists – they don’t like admitting that there *are* any other people out there, so when they run up against the intransigence of people who don’t just cave and/or go away or shut up to make *them* go away, they really don’t know what to do. I have two generations of male forebears with this problem, and it’s likely that great-granddad on that side of the family was just as bad, so I’ve seen how it plays out in other areas too. They probably – and this is *not* just me being a mean meanie here – don’t have any friends, either; because, you know, *friends* require effort and aren’t just there to be bobbleheads for you and may prove challenging and so they limit themselves to an ever-shrinking circle of fellow dittoheads, from whose company one of them may be purged for the least lapse into “political correctness”…

    Yeah, bitter, lonely, unpleasant – and can’t figure out why they can’t keep a girlfriend, either.

    This is also part of why they have to deny that guys like you exist – you’re either faking it, or you’re secretly gay, because it simply cannot be the case that there are heterosexual males whose beliefs and attitudes differ from theirs. This is the ultimate curse of the Narcissist/Solipsist: if only you are real, then anything that is NotYou must be unreal. Anyone who claims to like something you don’t like – beer brands, bands, books, B-movies – *must* be putting it on for some reason. That there are Real Other People with really differing experiences? InconCEIVable!

    This is, btw, probably also what is behind the fact that afaik, the Phallic Symbol Dudes are only trolling other male bloggers like you and The Stranger-Slog – if they “stooped” to enter into the fray at Jezebel or Bitch Magazine or any femfan journals, they’d be de facto admitting that we were real people whose opinions and tastes counted…

  32. agouti-rex said

    Oh, I do so hope that their emails are of the same sterling caliber as their comments here!

  33. bg said

    Oooh, are they going on about “free speech” that is apparently guaranteed in your blog comments?

    This is slightly off topic, but my favorite recurring thing with MRAs is their unflappable devotion to “logic”. Even though, biochemically speaking, there is “emotion” in every decision that humans make. The logic/emotion dichotomy was something that the Greeks came up with, that people can’t seem to get away from. Hell, even after studying this stuff, I still find myself thinking of things in terms of being “logical” or “emotional”, ignoring that they can be both.

  34. Richie said

    Oh, alright, I’ll reproduce one:

    My advice to you, young man, Stop your hateful projections. And, for God’s sake get help with your self loathing.

    Doesn’t get any more interesting, does it?

  35. bellatrys said

    Oh wow, more evidence to my belief that 90% of wingnuttery is projection (see also: death panels) – which may be optimistic.

    Also, have you seen this Hawaiian Libertarian dude’s blog? Again, it’s not like they’re hurting for venues, plenty of them seem to have figured out how to set up their own blogs!

  36. Richie said

    Oh God he goes straight from “There is a matriarchy!” to “Don’t swear, it’s unladylike”. WHY IS SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION NOT REAL?

  37. bellatrys said

    I know, I know! Something about some skulls being made of solid bone, I think.

    (On the plus side, at least some white supremacists over at Vanguard got exposed to the existential horror of the existence of slash for the first time in their lives via the Phallic Toolbox’s War On Minsky The Innocent Bystander From MIT, even if the head-exploding was only figurative, alas…)

  38. wiggles said

    Wait wait wait! I just looked at the link. A recipe for Scotcheroos qualifies as sexual shaming language? Those sound delicious!

  39. Richie said

    I’m sure that the act of cooking is a kind of shame, though. It’s fer wimmen an’ other fags.

  40. Oriniwen said

    Anyone who can say, “Stop using sexual shaming language at me, you mangina!” and not actually explode from the dissonance has gone to place Logic cannot follow. The absurdity of the comments there just *slays* me.

    I was tempted to leave a comment there, but I realized that Commenting While Female may bring me even more unwelcome attention at my home space than it has brought you, and I’m not feeling like dealing with that to be honest. Thank you for fighting the good fight.

    Now, I’m going to go use my Magical Vagina Powers of Man Scientist Scaring to get my colleague to give me his lab space. He has a window.

  41. Linda Radfem said

    Loving your Spearhead Experiment, Richie. Thankyou.

  42. Charles RB said

    “Mangina” makes me think of a brand of angina pills that’s trying to promote itself as super-manly.

  43. Richie said

    They’re 40% bigger and made from ground beef.

  44. chocolatepie said

    Didn’t you get the memo? Science fiction is about MANLY MEN OF SCIENCE doing MAN THINGS ALL THE TIME. Women and gays can’t be girling it up with their nail polish and respect for the complexity of interpersonal relationships. Get with the program!

    I imagine the spearmint headfarb commenter typing his comments/emails with a quivering smile on his face and shaking hands.

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