Crimitism

Alright, Alex, I won't do anything that people might like ever again because it's unfair on you. You've successfully emotionally blackmailed someone out of doing something they cared about because it wasn't entirely for your benefit. You must be so proud.

Two new thrilling episodes of stuff everybody reading this blog already knows anyway

Posted by Richie on July 7, 2010

Episode #2: Lady and the Tramp

The guy that runs Antimisandry.com has decided to fight feminism by adding explanatory subtitles to the “We are Siamese” song from Lady and the Tramp. Literally, that’s what he did. A grown man thought this was a good idea. Special guest appearance by Surface Agent X2-Zero!

Episode #3: The Wage Gap Myth

Antimisandry uploads a video of John Stossel interviewing Warren Farrell. It’s a triple threat! We learn that there isn’t a wage gap at all, except that there is and it’s just that women don’t want to do dangerous work, except that dangerous work doesn’t actually pay that well, except women would rather stay home anyway so just drop it.

I’d also like to point out that the original video had really, really badly desynchronised audio and I spent ages fixing it. Meaning I actually care more about Antimisandry’s videos than they do, ironically.

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48 Responses to “Two new thrilling episodes of stuff everybody reading this blog already knows anyway”

  1. April said

    Stossel is an interesting case. I don’t know how much of him you’re exposed to down there in Australia (not more than 200 ppm, I hope; he gets toxic at higher concentrations), but he is frustratingly common here in the states. I hadn’t known he was on board with the MRA crowd, but I’m not super surprised. I don’t think he’s a straight up misogynist like some of these guys are; instead he’s that particular brand of libertarian who feels it necessary to vociferously attack any notion that we’re not all equal individuals, free of any social baggage. It’s important to their ideology that they maintain this fiction, because if different kinds of people (gender, race, etc) have different advantages or disadvantages in society, then they cannot justify their every man for himself attitude as being a principled defense of freedom. Women can’t be allowed to be recognized to be struggling under a regime of systemic disadvantages, or else we would be compelled by common decency and morality to attempt to resolve that problem, which might require (gasp!) coercive government social policy. And as we all know, nothing is worse than the government deciding to fight for the underrepresented in defense of the common good. Why, if it did that, then taxes might go up, and that would be an infringement upon liberty.

    The fact the polices that spring from an attitude are ones that hugely favor straight white men of financial means is probably why most libertarians tend to be rich white guys who can’t wait to tell you about how hard they had it growing up. Or young teenagers who’ve never had a real job that they used to pay real bills.

  2. Richie said

    I actually only know about Stossel because he’s in bed with the men’s movement (there’s a mental image for you), but yeah, the rest of that stuff doesn’t surprise me.

  3. Lulz at society trying to escape partiarchy. And why is feminism being equated with the “yellow peril” racist scare of the 1950s? No, wait, let me guess – numpty here didn’t even notice the racism. “would you look at that!” indeed.

    And John Stossel – oh, John Stossel. Who has a nice wife at home taking care of everything so he can be a high-paid “investigative journalist” and still have a nice house, while whimpering about how he never gets to enjoy it, except that’s all he does when he goes home at night. Why does so much of this boil down to “My penis! Wahhh!” ?

  4. emma said

    God, I love your blog. Keep doing this! I was going to say “more often” but I don’t know if I could handle MRA bullshit coming at me “more often.”

  5. Nymeria said

    These are amazing. Thank you for making them.

  6. venatus said

    another great set of episodes, but if you don’t mind could you link to those studies, I haven’t gotten into an argument about the wage gap yet, but I find myself in these debates more and more often so it would be helpful to be able to point to outside sources when it inevitably does come up.

  7. Richie said

    Women less likely to get jobs than men, despite qualifications:

    http://www.tamu.edu/classes/psyc/payne/ID/ID%20articles/Heilman%202001.pdf

    Favourable responses to male employees vs. female employees doing the exact same job:

    http://khufu.openlib.org/~tchecndg/archive/2007/att-0755/DiscriminationHekman.pdf

    Bias against working mothers:

    http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/511799

  8. venatus said

    thanks for the links, while i’ve been lucky enough to avoid being directly involved in a wage gap debate I’ve heard a few of their arguments before, nice to have some concrete proof that there pulling it out of no were.

  9. wiggles said

    What really disturbs me is how mainstream this crap is. 20/20 is a weekly network prime time news magazine show. And afaik, it’s not considered a right-wing bubble like Fox News.
    It’s kind of like if a professional denier of antisemitism was given a platform on 60 Minutes and taken seriously.

  10. Janelle said

    TWO AT ONCE!
    Is it Christmas?

  11. franzferdinand2 said

    Wait, the strong arm of the US government is aiding feminists against society? That is news to me. Is that why, out of over 500 congressional seats, less than 20% are held by women?

  12. Cellycel said

    “Wait, the strong arm of the US government is aiding feminists against society? That is news to me. Is that why, out of over 500 congressional seats, less than 20% are held by women?”

    Its all part of the plan dontcha know? If women look like they’re in power than people will think they’re in power. Worse, people will think they’re powerful. Then how do you justify all the oppressive privileges they get?

    Duh.

  13. April said

    @Franzferdinand2

    What you have to understand is that all those male members of congress and their male staffers are totally pussywhipped by their wives, who are the real power in Washington. All those prostitutes, bribes, and drugs are merely a cunning camouflage. Who would suspect a corrupt cesspit of debauchery could hide a cold, soulless feminist stronghold? It’s brilliant in its simplicity except not at all.

  14. meerkat said

    Facts are so liberal and elitist.

    I already knew Stossel was evil because he sides with puppy mills (and implies that the rescued dogs are being sold by the dog shelter for a profit).

    I disagree that office buildings are safe environments. If you watch a few action movies you will see how they are frequently collided with by large airborne objects.

  15. wiggles said

    @Meerkat – Was it not Bruce Willis’ EX-WIFE who lured him to the Nakatomi building?

  16. Janelle said

    @Meerkat regarding the puppy mill/rescue thing-
    …what.
    …WHAT?!
    As a passionate animal rights advocate and a loving owner of two rescue dogs, that is just… ARGGHHHH. Words fail me.

  17. Johnny_B said

    Ah, another antimisandry hater. Typical mangina with a white-knight complex from the looks of it, though more articulate (and long-winded) than usual. Good luck on completing the transformation, seeing as how you probably feel you’re a woman (or is it womyn?) trapped in a filthy man’s body and all…

  18. Richie said

    I’m only letting this through as an example of why I don’t usually let MRA comments through. So, when they inevitably start whining about me “censoring” them… this is the kind of challenging, productive discourse we’re missing out on.

  19. April said

    So if someone who has a penis doesn’t like to see people who don’t have penises getting a raw deal, that means the person in question wishes to divest themselves of their genitals?

    This explains SO MUCH! Whew. For a moment there (2 and a half years) I thought I was trapped in the wrong body, but now that Johnny has explained this all to me, I can see that if I can only become a bigger dick, I won’t mind keeping it!

    Where do I start?

    Um…women are stupid heads!

    Drat. This is going to take some work…

  20. Richie said

    I’ve literally had more productive discussions with creationists.

  21. franzferdinand2 said

    Well, obviously if you aren’t on the side of antimisandry, it means you’re not a real man. And if you’re not a real man, you’re obviously a woman.

    I think what really works in favor of his rhetorical strategy is the fact that at no point does he address any of your arguments, he just questions your manhood. Now he doesn’t have to argue you point-by-point, because if you have female qualities, it automatically discredits anything you say.

  22. Richie said

    He also showed up again and called me fat. We’re really pluming the Mariana Trench of arguments, here.

  23. Dire Sloth said

    I’m calling Poe’s Law on Johnny there. His comment reads like MRA Mad Libs.

  24. decodevo said

    spilling the water of indoctrination from the flowerpot of injustice on the piano of truth

    Delurking to say thanks for the LOLs. Love your work.

  25. Richie said

    Thanks!

  26. April said

    @ Dire Sloth

    I wish you were correct, but I fear that you aren’t. I’ve skimmed a few of their forums (not as much as Richie has; that man has a stomach of titanium), and a lot of them really are that stupid. If it sounds like Mad Libs, then that’s because the kind of MRA who is going to go flame a feminist blog is exactly the kind of guy who needs a stencil to fill in when “creating” an argument.

  27. Richie said

    There’s another Antimisandry douche on Facebook who I’m “arguing” with; we’ve now reached the point where he’s been so consistently shot down in flames on a public page that everyone can see that he’s trying to criticise me for being “predictable”. As in, I’m predictably right and he’s predictably wrong, and I should, I dunno, be fairer on him by intentionally making mistakes. He’s thirty five years old.

  28. franzferdinand2 said

    Oh, Facebook arguments are the best! I recently got into an argument with a friend’s uncle about the death penalty. Eventually I found out he wasn’t in favor of capital punishment so much as he was against due process of law. (He also seemed to be arguing under the assumption that the US justice system had never wrongly incarcerated an innocent person).

    But yeah, he was also a fan of the ad hominem. Being portly myself, I always just like to tell them how they could have done better with their insults that don’t address any of my arguments.

    “Dude, don’t just say I’m fat, that’s way too easy. Say something like, ‘You’re so fat, when you haul ass, you have to make two trips.’ Something with a little bite to it.”

  29. Richie said

    I’m only bothering with this guy on Facebook because it’s on the official Antimisandry page, right up the top where everyone can see it. He’s doing a better job of publicly discrediting the site than I ever could.

  30. chocolatepie said

    Shorter John Stossel: Some things in this life are mildly inconvenient. Give me a break!

    I’m so ready to watch these as soon as I get home from work.

  31. Richie said

    I actually left out the last half (because he just repeated the same arguments over different footage), but it seriously ends with him saying that anti-discrimination laws are complicated so it’s less hassle to just not have them.

    Also, his example is a factory where a bunch of women are on their feet operating machinery all day for minimum wage. Because clearly that’s less stressful and gives them more time to raise a— ohhhhhh snap.

  32. April said

    Somehow I’m not surprised that Stossel thinks “because it’s hard” is a good reason to avoid combating systemic discrimination against people who aren’t like himself.

  33. garvan said

    You do realise that said white collar office jobs represent a small fraction of jobs which are extremely high paying.

    The average construction worker in North America makes more than the average secretary in North America.

    Actually the average person with a skilled trades background makes more than most people working in white collar jobs outside of the medium to top level positions.

  34. Richie said

    There are PLENTY of physically demanding jobs that pay more than entry-level office work (seriously, secretarial work is notoriously low paid; of course most other jobs are going to outrank it), but there’s no actual CORRELATION between physical demands and income. You’re focusing on very specific examples, which misses the forest for the trees, probably deliberately.

    For the record, here are the highest paying jobs in America (non-executive positions), according to salary.com

    1. Financial Associate (Corporate) III
    2. Group/Region Manager III (Commercial Loans)
    3. Surgeon
    4. Financial Associate (Public) III
    5. Consumer Loan Area Manager
    6. Managing Attorney
    7. Divisional Merchandise Manager
    8. Underwriting Manager
    9. Commercial Real Estate Manager
    10. Tax Attorney IV
    11. Aviation Manager
    12. Group/Region Manager II (Commercial Loans)
    13. Group Branch Manager IV
    14. Psychiatrist
    15. Mergers and Acquisitions Manager
    16. Lending Officer III
    17. Employment Law Attorney IV
    18. Research Fellow
    19. Attorney III
    20. Patent Attorney IV
    21. Fuels Trader, Sr.
    22. Physician
    23. Tax Attorney III
    24. Commercial Loan Team Leader
    25. Regional Administrative Manager
    26. SB Financial Services Manager
    27. Executive Producer – Web
    28. SBA Regional Sales Manager
    29. Patent Attorney II – Biotech
    30. Business Banking Manager II
    31. Operations Research Analysis Manager
    32. Biostatistician IV
    33. Patent Attorney III
    34. IT Account Manager
    35. Funding Manager II
    36. Applications Engineer V
    37. E-Commerce Manager II
    38. Treasurer Assistant
    39. Regional Retail Sales Manager
    40. Risk Modeling Manager
    41. E-Commerce Strategy Manager
    42. Applications Engineering Manager II
    43. Professor – Law – Higher Ed.
    44. Electric and Gas Operations Manager
    45. Web Product Manager III
    46. Cross-Platform Security Manager
    47. Group/Region Manager I (Commercial Loans)
    48. CRM Application Architect
    49. Strategic Planning Manager
    50. Web Security Manager
    51. Group Branch Manager III
    52. Nurse Anesthetist
    53. Tax Research Manager
    54. Managing Editor – Web
    55. Program Manager
    56. Sales Manager II
    57. Operations Research Analyst V
    58. Tax Attorney II
    59. Env., Health, and Safety Engineering Manager
    60. Business Development Manager, Sr.
    61. Six Sigma Master Black Belt
    62. Business Systems Manager (Banking)
    63. Software Engineering Manager
    64. ERP Project Manager
    65. Dentist
    66. Radiation Physicist
    67. Community Development Manager II
    68. Business Application Delivery Manager
    69. Quality Assurance Engineering Manager II
    70. Content Engineer III – Web
    71. Expatriate Administration Manager
    72. Production Engineering Manager
    73. Data Warehouse Information Security Manager
    74. Data Architect V
    75. Interior Aircraft Assembly Manager
    76. Plant Manager
    77. Actuary V
    78. Orthodontist
    79. Change Management Specialist
    80. Sales Representative IV
    81. CRM Targeted Marketing Campaign Manager
    82. Facilities Maintenance Manager II
    83. Aircraft Maintenance Manager II
    84. Test Engineering Manager II
    85. Planner/Scheduler V – Construction
    86. Attorney II
    87. Cost Engineer V – Construction
    88. Head of Ancillary Services
    89. Product Marketing Analyst V
    90. Expatriate Administrator IV
    91. Health and Safety Manager
    92. Physicist V
    93. Configuration Analysis Manager
    94. Operations Research Analyst IV
    95. Production Scheduler Manager II
    96. Spares Coordination Manager
    97. Wafer Process Development Manager
    98. Professor – Chem. Engineering – Higher Ed.
    99. Strategic Planning Analyst V
    100. Engineering Manager

    Not all office jobs, but NONE of them are physically demanding or dangerous in the way that (to use your example) construction work is. The closest any of them get to physical labour is… being the person who tells physical labourers what to do.

  35. Linda Radfem said

    “The average construction worker in North America makes more than the average secretary in North America.”

    This is because construction is classified as “men’s work” and so automatically has a higher value placed upon it than secretarial work which is classified as “women’s work”. Guess who gets to decide whose work is of higher value?

    Richie, as per usual, thankyou for this.

  36. Garvan said

    You do realise that those are mid-level to high-level positions.

    For every white collar manager, you’re going to have a ton of white collar workers below them.

    Unless you’re going to tell me that management positions like Consumer Loan Area Manager and CRM Targeted Marketing Campaign Manager are typical job that can be hired out easily.

    If I’ve missed the forest for the trees, I believe you’ve just missed the ecosphere for a forest.

    “Guess who gets to decide whose work is of higher value?”

    The person paying for the work. In your case, you value well sorted documents more than having a roof over your head. I’m sure you’ll pay more for it since you’ll get more value out of it.

  37. Richie said

    I’ll be blunt and say I have absolutely no idea what point you’re actually trying to make here. Yes, those are mid to high level positions; they’re the top 100 paying jobs in America, it’s sort of self-evident that they won’t be entry level positions. ALL entry level positions are paid shitty salaries. The EXISTENCE of workers who are paid shitty salaries for jobs that aren’t physically demanding doesn’t alter the fact that the big salaries are still biased IN FAVOUR OF people who don’t work physically demanding jobs AS A GROUP.

    Really, there’s just… there’s no correlation. It doesn’t exist anywhere outside Warren Farrell’s head. There’s no evidence supporting it. It’s self-evidently false. I don’t know if you’re being sincere, or deliberately trying to drag things off-topic so now it’s about low-paid white collar vs. low-paid blue collar when the issue was specifically physical danger’s relationship to salaries, or… I have no idea.

    Seriously, what is your point?

  38. Most construction jobs are also ones that have had a strong union tradition. Mining, auto manufacturing, steelworking, all of these fields have much more developed and organized unions than other professions. That is also an aspect of why they have better pay.

  39. Richie said

    And secretarial work USED to pay a lot better until they realised they could get women to do it for less… And most sweat-shop workers with horrible conditions and inhumane shifts are women who make like $1 a day… But office temps make less than plumbers so… Something.

  40. “Guess who gets to decide whose work is of higher value?”

    “The person paying for the work.”

    Sorry Garvan but that’s absolute rubbish. Industrial relations commissions determine award rates, penalty rates etc. not individual employers. In the case of jobs in the for-profit sector, men are the ones who stand to profit from the labour of workers and so therefore place high relative value on that labour than they do on labour performed in the non-profit sector such as social services, education etc. which have higher levels of women workers.

  41. Garvan said

    I am desperately trying to drag this thread off-topic in order to argue against a point nobody is actually making, because I lack the ability to argue against the ones they actually are.

  42. Richie said

    The above has been edited for brevity and clarity.

    Seriously, I gave you multiple chances to say whatever you were attempting to say, but I’m past the “benefit the doubt” stage with you and I’m not going to publish your fucking endless THERE ARE PLUMBERS AND SECRETARIES USE COMPUTERS AND RICH PEOPLE MAKE MORE MONEY THAN POOR PEOPLE THEREFORE YOU MUST BE WRONG BECAUSE I AM SAYING THESE THINGS AND THEY ARE TRUE ramble.

    Again, this is why I moderate comments.

  43. franzferdinand2 said

    Behold! I bring good tidings of what an absolute shit Troy Duffy, writer and director of Boondock Saints, is.

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-boondock-saints-ii-all-saints-day-2009,43714/

    If any of you are at all like me, you have probably at some point been surrounded by people who loved the middle-school moralistic antics of Boondock Saints. This article is all about what Duffy’s commentary tracks (plural) on the sequal are like.

    Just know that when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze back.

  44. franzferdinand2 said

    Also, I realize that link is completely off topic, but the amount of failure in it made me giddy, and I had to share the…well, joy isn’t quite the right word. Misery? Something like that.

  45. Cellycel said

    This isn’t reeeaaally related, but feels like it. A friend who is studying paramedics facebook post:

    “I have come to a sad realilzation. I am paid more working as the lowest paid member of my office than I can hope to earn as a paramedic once I qualify. I think my cushy office job just started looking more appealing *sigh*”

    Her current job is data entry. :/

  46. wiggles said

    @Cellycel – Yeah I looked into being an EMT once. Starbucks paid better.

    Secretarial work is pink collar. White collar jobs are for men and a gradually-increasing number of women.

    A neat trick is if a man performs the same duties as a secretary or administrative assistant, you reword some of the duties on his job description; give him a more impressive title, like Operations Administrator or Administrative Operations Analyst; then you pay him 20-25% more. Voila!

  47. Wolf-Alice said

    If there’s anyone keen on internet arguments there are some dudes in the comments on the wage gap video in need of some schoolin’.

  48. Richie said

    Yeah, it’s why I make a point of moderating these threads. Maybe a third of the comments I get here are just abuse / threats / attempts at provoking an argument we’ve already had God knows how many times, and I’m not going to indulge them because it’s absolutely pointless. If I let them get a foothold, it’d be two thirds.

    But yeah, they’re… really, really angry about this, because they’re a bunch of domineering control freaks who absolutely cannot cope with anyone criticising them, then go absolutely ballistic when their harassment and intimidation doesn’t work. Like, a few of the guys commenting here are MRA’s I’m aware of, who have a lot of stock in looking like they’re calm and rational in the face of feminist hysteria, and oh God, they’re having real trouble keeping it up in a situation where they can’t get their way by intimidating people.

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